•Margarita, Spanish language broadcast communication SVP and General Manager, Entravision•
Margarita Wilder SVP & General Manager at Entravision Communications
Lessons you will learn from this podcast:
- How to hustle and identify your opportunity in every position
- Finding the confidence to delegate and let managers manage
- Understanding the Hispanic market and its intricacies
- Earning trust & proving yourself in a male-dominated industry
- The challenge of managing a new team and replacing a popular leader
- Technologies effect on Spanish media and the innovation of POP UP News
- How leaders can disconnect and find time for personal space
- The reality of a Mexican/ American border town economy
- How to resist the temptation to over commit
>> Congratulations, you’ve joined the Showrunner Marketing Podcast, a network of accomplished business women who are running the show. Here, you’ll find the inspiration and the inside information you need to take your marketing strategies to the next level. Bringing her thirst for continued learning and her 25 years of experience as Founder and President of ad agency Advanced Marketing Strategies. Here’s your host, Kathy Cunningham.
>> Hi everybody, it’s Kathy and today we’re networking with Margarita Wilder. She is the Senior Vice President and General Manager at Entravision Communications. In an industry where women make up only 16% of the television station managers in the country. This media maven sits at the helm of a company that includes six broadcast channels in San Diego and Tijuana, including the two most recognized Spanish language stations in the region. Margarita oversees Univision, Telemundo, Telefutura, MyTV, and Mundo Fox. She began her broadcasting career with Entravision in 1991 in El Paso. And her years of experience have made her a visionary leader in Hispanic media. Margarita’s dedication and leadership to the community are also evident as she sits on the board at the San Diego Big Brothers and Sisters, the Red Cross, the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce. Margarita, welcome to the Showrunner Network.
>> Thank you, Kathy. It’s a pleasure to be here.
>> It’s so nice to have you, I’m excited about our conversation. I know you have such great lessons to share with our listeners, so welcome. Can you tell us about a bit more about your professional journey and your background in media and business?
>> Yes, I ended in media by accident. I was going to the University of Texas at El Paso, UTEP, and my minor was translation. There was an opening at KINT, the university station there for somebody to translate sports. Again, this is back in 1991 where there was not a lot of activity in the Hispanic or Spanish language TVs.
>> So I got the job and I would sit around doing a lot of nothing because I could only translate so many spots, maybe two-day, three-day, 30-second spots. So I learned the traffic system, I learned the accounting, I helped in news, I helped in production. I was just figuring out my way, I ended up in sales because that was a team that’s having the most fun.
>> They were together at lunch, happy hours. They had the nice cars, they had their own schedule. So I became a self-assistant/receptionist, then because I was so young they always saw me as a child kind of, they all took care of me.
>> Oh. So they allowed me to be a junior account executive, I still have to do all my self-assisting jobs and on my free time, I could go finds accounts. So then I move to account executive. And then once again, I was still on the same station after six years as a account executive, but I wanted to grow. The opportunity opened in Albuquerque, New Mexico. So I moved to Albuquerque working for the Univision ONO and I was the local sales manager, I was the big shot.
>> Then from there, I spent 14 years in Albuquerque. I was promoted to GSM and then general manager. And in Albuquerque we had radio stations, so I had to learn the radio side of the business very quickly. And 14 years later I moved to San Diego, and I never thought that I would love being in the city or in California and it’s great.
>> What a wonderful success story that is? Starting from the bottom, really, and just translating copy and looking around your atmosphere and finding opportunity for you to grow. That’s a great story, thanks for sharing that.
>> Margarita, can you explain what a typical day is like as the head of a communications company?
>> Everyday is completely different, there are some days that the focus is news. If there are big changes, big things happening in the community or in the country, news takes a big focus. There are days where I don’t even step into the office because I’m in meetings with clients. Or sometimes across the border, overseeing the stations in Tijuana, and clients over there.
>> Wow, so every day is kind of a surprise, a mixed bag.
>> Yes, the only certainty that I have is that my emails are not gonna be done at the end of the day, no matter what.
>> [LAUGH] You can for sure count on the fact that emails will never be answered fully, all of them.
>> All of them.
>> Yeah, how do you prepare for a day that you really don’t know what’s gonna happen?
>> Well, I’m always behind on something, so how do I prepare? I always hope when I don’t have a lot of things planned, I always hope that I’m gonna have a lot of alone time to catch up. To return those unanswered emails, to follow up, to do a little bit of the thinking process that needs to be done to move things, change things, grow things. And it never really happens.
>> How is a typical day for you?
>> Well, I’d say, most days, 8 to probably 6 o’clock on a typical day.
>> But at least once or twice a week I have events at night, dinners, engagements, events that I need to attend. So those become longer days.
>> It is a little bit of a challenge trying to balance that when you’re raising a family.
>> Yeah, that’s interesting. So you not only have your busy day, you have an extension of your day with some of the activities that you have after work. Correct, that makes sense.
>> What has it been like to be a leader in an industry where only 16% of the station managers are females? I find that fascinating.
>> It’s been fun, it’s been fun. It’s definitely an industry that is male dominated, not only my peers but also a lot of the clients that we deal with, a lot of the other managements, or corporate. But it’s fun, I’ve learned to listen-
>> Being a men’s environment, because you learn a lot more about what they’re saying just by listening them talking. I’ve learned that I don’t have to prove myself to them because I’m a female. So I will never just speak to say that I have a mouth and I’m gonna give you my opinion.
>> How long has it taken you to get that kind of confidence where you feel like you don’t have to prove yourself?
>> It took a long time because it’s been probably five years and I’ve been doing this for a long time. So it’s taken me a long time to realize that I don’t have to prove myself. I felt, as I told you in El Paso, that I always had to prove myself because they saw me as a child. Then I moved to Albuquerque and I had to prove myself because I was being promoted three times, let’s say market, and I was new to the market.
>> It’s a small market so many ways it’s not as open minded and welcoming to other people. So I felt like I had to prove myself, then I moved to San Diego. And again, I don’t know a single person here, and I have this big job, big stations, other networks that I had never worked with. So I felt the need that I still had to prove myself internally to the people that were working with me, and to the community. And now I don’t feel like I have that need anymore.
>> It’s nice to reach to that point in your career where you feel like, okay, I’m here now and I don’t have to prove myself anymore, and it gives you that confidence. What does that mean? How does that affect the way you go about your job now?
>> I think, and some say I perhaps delegate too much, but I don’t see it as that. I see as if you are my local sales manager, I’m gonna let you do your job.
>> If you are my news director and you tell me that we need to start with weather because it’s raining in San Diego, I’m gonna let you do it. So I think that my confidence has translated to that, to do a job without needing me to hold a hand, or simply my approval That’s fantastic. So the confidence that you have in yourself allows you to be able to delegate and let your managers manage.
>> Very interesting. Margarita, what do you see as the most significant challenge in marketing to the Spanish-speaking community?
>> The biggest challenge in marketing to the Hispanic community, it’s not understanding the market. Because every market, even though it’s Hispanic, it’s different, and just the same way that When you are targeting the non hispanic, the English language population, you see, perhaps, ads that are different in New York than they are in California.
>> So when you’re targeting to the Hispanic market, the lack of information and the lack of knowledge can be hurtful. I lived in another border town, El Paso, and San Diego both border towns, both heavy Mexican influence. But both markets are completely different.
>> Yeah, it’s interesting. We’ve been asked an agency marketing for Hispanic for 27 years and we have this tool that we use and that’s called prizm lifestyle segmentation. And I remember for years they have that 62 segments from across the country, but they had one segment for Hispanics. And I always thought that that was odd because there’s different segments and groups and types of population and lifestyles within the Hispanic community.
>> That is exactly 100% correct. And you understand it, but a lot of people don’t. They just say this is the Hispanic market. This is the Latino market.
>> Yes, and the level of acculturation within he Hispanic market as well. They are some people that are very acculturated and some people that aren’t, and so the message has to be different.
>> Absolutely, absolutely.
>> Is there any gland that you see out there that’s doing a really good job in communicating the Hispanic market?
>> A local brand
>> Sure, sure well those they are several. But one that we have seen grow is a Cardialsm and Cosback.
>> He started with a very small and skeptical talk to him about the importance of having your team that understands fast, a receptionist when you pick up the phone. So, he did every step of the way and his being consistent for seven years and he was at the bottom of the rankings for that category. And I believe now he’s the second one. I think that’s really good advise that you give as well because it’s not only making sure that you have the right message. And you’re on point with the Hispanic community but that is also making sure that when they get there, someone speaks Spanish and have your contracts in Spanish. You have your sales team trained on that as well.
>> So it sounds like you’re helping with that and that helps them to be more successful.
>> Absolutely and it’s something that we always tell people. Okay, you wanna do a website but you don’t have anybody answering in Spanish. You don’t have the right message in Spanish, so let’s pull back and try to let us guide you.
>> Because we want a full partnership, we don’t want to just take your money and run.
>> Yeah, I think that’s really important that you form partnerships and you help them with all the aspects of marketing for the Hispanic community. With the Internet and social media communications so rapidly changing, do you have a favorite marketing or communicating innovation that you’re using or that you’ve seen used?
>> There’s so many. [CROSSTALK] It’s crazy. There’s so many ways to communicate with people and how to reach people. You have your regular texting, your chatters, your WhatsApp. So there’s a plethora of ways and I stick to the old text on my phone because I kept my phone most of the time. And I know there’s some fancier ways that it’s the easiest, the quickest and the most reliable when communicating with me.
>> Gotcha! I think you’re right about that. Let’s see here, oh, speaking of branding, Margarita, describe your personal brand of leadership and your philosophy.
>> My personal brand and my philosophy. I’ll tell you about my philosophy. My philosophy is to work hard and stay humble. I like to respect others and I like to have provided environment that its fun and relax without sacrificing productivity.
>> Is that hard to do?
>> It’s a fine line.
>> Because sometimes people can get too relaxed.
>> Then productiviy suffers.
>> And do you find that you’re setting the example for exactly how far to take that?
>> Yes, yes definitely. Listen Lee, I try to talk to them about time management. Some people believe that because they’re working long hours, they’re being very efficient.
>> And that’s another thing, I don’t subscribe to that.
>> I believe with everything that we have, all the resources. All the ways to communicate nobody should be in office for 12 hours. I believe that a healthy balance between your family and work your social life. It helps to be a better worker, a better family person a better all that. That’s really good advice and I think if we can learn to work smarter and not longer then we’re happier.
>> And so part of that being humble but having some fun but staying focused.
>> Thanks for sharing that. Margarita can you talk about a personal learning experience, a time or a situation in your career where you faced a professional obstacle? And how you overcame it I believe the most difficult obstacle was probably when I moved to San Diego. My predecessor was well liked and had a strong following within the station group. And he was a lot more relaxed than I am. So when I came here he was still in communications and friendly with the staff and I needed to change some things. And I had to make some hard decisions about the people that would stay with me because I believe we are a team. And I had a big ship and I had to refocus and move that ship and I wasn’t gonna do it alone. I needed my team. And it was a hard year of transition and learning the community, but the biggest obstacle was earning everybody’s trust. Again, proving, at that time, that I knew what I was doing, that I had been in this industry for a long time. And I was using some random person that they brought from Albuquerque.
>> So, that was challenging, that was very challenging.
>> It sounds like that can be a really tricky transition when you are taking over for somebody with a big personality and that has things set the way that he designed it. And then you have different ideas and a different style. And you’re not only learning about the company that’s new, but you’re also learning about the community. You’re new to San Diego as well.
>> Yes, ma’am.
>> So you have to prove yourself. << Yes. Interesting, that’s a great story. Thank you for sharing.
>> Are there any obstacles, any other obstacles or challenges, as a leader in marketing, that you are focusing on for 2019? What are the things on the top of your list?
>> Top of the list, our newscast. It’s important to us. And well, a lot of people don’t realized but not every night. But once in a while, we are the number one newscast in the market. And it’s a big run for us when we do that because we only service a part of the community, only 32%. It’s a thinner, so that’s our pie. We don’t have 100% of the pie.
>> So, being number one is a big deal for you and something to celebrate because you only have 33% of the market, you don’t have the whole pie.
>> So staying on top of news, and again, that is always challenging because technology changes. Sometimes we have less people doing more things because it’s just a push of a button.
>> Right, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, we were talking a little bit earlier about the way that stations have changed, and that there used to be a dozen people maybe pushing buttons in the operations room and now there’s maybe one. How’s that been a challenge for you?
>> Well, there had to be some necessary reductions in personal because there are less jobs to do.
>> And you’ve seen it in all media broadcast radio and TV that you see less new company, the company. And, part of that, I believe is the technology. You have a lot more that you can do with less people. I’m sure you remember seeing those big trucks, the TV media trucks, when they pull up to an event and raise the antenna. And you have to have the engineer, you have to have your photographer, your reporter, an assistant, just for that truck to do a live shot.
>> Nowadays you don’t need that. Some of our people carry a backpack. They raise the antenna and up you go.
>> A lot of the things are done with phones, so it has changed tremendously.
>> Wow, that is so interesting, my goodness. So, how does that affect the news?
>> It makes us more efficient, more visible, we have more eye candy, when we have a better news set, everything’s bright and shiny and new. Certainly HD has helped a lot with that, so it’s eye candy.
>> Yeah, and maybe reacting too. You can react to more stories, you can cover more news, you’re more nimble. It seems like you can have a lot more going on that’s gonna be attractive to your news. You got more stories you could cover.
>> And because we have news casts on both sides of the border, it allows us to get that story in Tijuana, and put it all over news casts, it’s important. Such as the caravans [LAUGH]
>> Yeah, right. So you can cover both sides.
>> Right, it also has made us something that is fun that we’ve been doing, thanks to technology, is doing pop up news. So we take our newscast on the road. We took it, last week we were at Sea World. We’ve done the Port of San Diego. We did university. And we just take all news casts to have more fun.
>> I like that, pop-up news.
>> Pop-up news. And again, it’s technology that allows us to do that.
>> Right, and it’s something new, and it’s really how the industry is evolving.
>> Yes. We have to think of innovative ways and in news with those in old days. So, breaking news at 6 o’clock, we have exclusive watches, those days are gone.
>> So now, social media. Before you watch from newscast, you probably knew everything that happened. So we have to give you something additional
>> How does the news station use social media to its advantage?
>> Social media, social media has grown a lot. We use anchors, reporters and we have a team here at in Tijuana that is always doing social media. I think at a point we open it to everybody, but it gets a little bit complicated, because it still needs to be monitored. So we have guidelines, but it is vital to our industry to have that strong arm. Interesting, so giving social openings, social media up to all of your newscasters and allowing them to do that is great, because it’s a lot of content. But you still have to manage it and what they’re doing?
>> Yeah, that one makes sense. Let’s talk about mentoring. What has mentoring meant to you? You’re very successful, you’ve worked your way up to be a leader in your industry. Are there any lessons that you learned from mentoring, or anything you can share with our listeners?
>> I think mentoring is very important, and I love to mentor people, when somebody wants to be mentored.
>> But I’ve had strict bosses that have pushed me harder than I thought I could do. It has generally raised the bar on me so that made me a better person. My husband, he’s in the industry. So he was a big banker. He was really tough and very narrow on compliments. A lot of high expectations. So he was my boss when I was in Albuquerque, and I tell him that, I was on the road and he used to call. I was like, I’m not gonna answer that. And then I believe that there’s accidental mentors, and maybe mentor is not the right word. They’re people that you learn of what I don’t wanna be. I don’t want to be a [INAUDIBLE] person. I don’t wanna have an environment of people yelling. I don’t be rude. I don’t wanna tolerate gossip. So things that I’ve see other people do, that I’ve said, I’m not gonna do it.
>> Accidental mentors, that’s a very interesting word that you use. And I think that you can learn from bad behavior as much as you can learn from good behavior.
>> Yes, yes.
>> So, what lessons would you share with anybody that works with their spouse? [LAUGH]
>> Well, we don’t work together anymore, but, wow, that’s a tough one. I think, and to this day because he’s in the industry, I believe you have to separate and disengage. And that’s one thing that, when I get home, and I cook, and people ask me, you get home you cook? And I cook because that’s my free zone, nobody’s really gonna come and help me. Everybody’s gonna leave me alone.
>> And I have a little bit my time.
>> Got you.
>> So I think disengaging and not always talking about the industry and talking about other things, is an advice that I can give to anybody who has a spouse in the same industry.
>> Cooking, [LAUGH]. So one of your tips for disconnecting is you get to come home and you get to cook, and you get to enjoy yourself. Nobody bothers you. Isn’t that interesting, when you’re in the kitchen nobody bothers you?
>> Absolutely, it’s the only time when nobody bothers you. Nobody wants to talk to me, everybody wants to leave me alone. And it’s a peaceful time that I enjoy, daily.
>> It’s your sanctuary?
>> That’s great. Margarita, you’ve shared with us such interesting insight in your career, and I just wanna thank you so much, it’s been great talking to you. I’m curious if you have some advice for the women that are listening to our podcast. What are the best ways for women to achieve their goals in today’s workplace?
>> Believe in yourself, be persistent. I don’t believe in playing the victim because you’re a female, and say, I didn’t get that because I’m a female. I believe we have an opportunity if we really want to, and listen, I always tell people to listen.
>> Listening is great. I try to learn that lesson myself. Listen more than you speak, right?
>> [LAUGH], Is there a daily habit or two that you believe contributes to your success?
>> A daily habit. Well, I like to workout, I like to on treadmill, it’s something that unfortunately, I cannot do every single day. But it’s a sort of a habit that I’ve had for many years. And something that disengages and disconnects me, which is probably my favorite thing That I separate everything at one point during the day, just to re engage, to reactivate, to give myself a little peace of mind.
>> Anything else besides treadmill and cooking that helps you disengage?
>> I love to read, I love to read
>> Do you read for work or for pleasure?
>> For pleasure.
>> I read during the week, I read too much for work, so if I’m on a plane you’re gonna catch me reading a silly novel.
>> Excellent, good for you.
>> How about any, speaking of books and reading, do you have any marketing resources books or podcasts? Or anything that you might recommend to our listeners?
>> Well, eMarketer is pretty good, I like it because you get something simple.
>> Again I don’t have time to open him every day, but it’s a simple tool that we have. I get bombarded with a lot of news sources from various places so that takes a little bit of my time. But as a marketing, I think eMarketer could be the best one.
>> And tell us about a eMarketer, is that something that comes in-
>> You sign up for it, it comes in your email, everyone you get an update on something that’s happening. Sometimes it has to do to our Facebook, sometimes a new product that Google has, many different things, many different topics.
>> Let’s talk a little bit since I have you here, you’re such a great resource. There’s a lot going on in the news right now about San Diego and the border with the caravans. How is that affecting your company and your employees and yourself?
>> Well, we are a company that works on both sides of the border, we have stations here, stations in Tijuana. One of the things that I find most fascinating is about the wealth of relationships that exist between the countries, their two cities. As I mentioned to you, I lived in El Paso, Juarez, Tapor which is completely different. Completely different, I really admire what the two cities have done here and the synergies that they have. So when you have something so disruptive as the caravans, they’re disrupting everyday business. I’ve had employees that cannot come to work, or are late because the traffic, the protesting that’s going on. And because they’ve closed the border. We are in a time of the year where people like Christmas shopping, and there’s a lot of crossover. A lot of people that live here and go buy small goods over there, because they’re less expensive. Especially with the peso devaluation and how healthy the dollar is compared to it, and vice versa. There’s people that, it’s Christmas, they’re gonna spend the money, and they wanna cross over. And it hurts the economy, it hurts the image, we already have three walls here, we don’t need another one. But the president doesn’t help us, by giving the public a reason to think that we need that.
>> Right, right, I’d like to hear how you talk about the two communities Tijuana and San Diego. The great communication and relationship they have with each other that you noticed, that’s different from other border cities. Because I feel like we just hear a lot of negative news and what we’re seeing on the television right now. It doesn’t look like we have a very good relationship, but we actually really do. There’s a ton of commerce back and forth, people, employees cross the borders back and forth. Shopping cross back and forth, it’s a really important part of our economy here, right?
>> Absolutely, and it affects both economies, we have not only the working class, but we also have a lot of business owners.
>> You have people like Joseph that they are Mexican, they operate in San Diego. And they export their products, I don’t know, I forget his story. But it’s a great example of how two communities are working together and how they do just go back and forth. And well, yes, there’s a lot of bad press on, perhaps, the crime and the security of going into Mexico. But in reality, it’s a very safe place, and that’s why we have the largest border crossing in the world.
>> Right, as a station owner, do you have, station owner, excuse me, I wish [LAUGH], next step Margarita. [LAUGH] As a station manager, is there something that you do to sort of cover the good parts of the relationship? How can you shine a bright light on what’s going on?
>> Yes, well, hm, let me think about this one.
>> What are we doing? Well in the past, we used to always say if it bleeds it leads the news. And that’s something that if something’s really bad, you put it at the front. And we try to do within our newscast not only hard news, but also soft news. That our reporter helped this woman cross the border, or get to the bus, or abnormalities, an unsung hero.
>> That it’s a nobody, it’s not a leader in the community, but it’s somebody that did something good. Or somebody that called, and we’d help that person.
>> Mm-hm. So we like to do more personal stories to keep it, we do have to use the sensational.
>> The sensational stories [LAUGH]
>> Yes, sensational stories and, yes, we do have to continue to use those because they do bring viewers. And we have to definitely cover the not-so-good stuff as well because we feel. And I am very passionate about this that I feel that myself, my team, we are the eyes and ears to the Hispanic community. Because we have so many stations, we have so many reporters, we produce so many newscasts. And we’ve expanded our news production to other markets such as El Centro and Palm Springs, so it’s a, We have to be honest, we have to report the good, we have to report the bad, we have to include the sensationalist.
>> And we have to do one stories that make you feel good about where we live, and who we are.
>> Mm-hm, I love this kind of stories, is there anything new in programing, coming up that you wanna talk about? Any way that your station may be changing, anything on the horizon we can look forward to?
>> No, nothing, nothing new, programming is a little different in the Spanish world as you know. We have more consistency on the shows, they last Monday to Friday and they change, we have miniseries now. Nobody wants to call them novelas anymore, and they change every four to six months. And the networks, they don’t give us a lot of preview of what’s happening. So we know that every four to six months, we’re gonna have new programing, we just don’t know what.
>> That’s a real niche that the Spanish stations have, isn’t it, the the mini-series?
>> Yes, yes, and with that routine shipped too, because when they were called telenovelas, they were so dramatic. And it was always a love story with betrayal, the women wake up gorgeous, and the men are so handsome. And that’s what gave us ratings, but that got old and got boring because we as a society are evolving. With technology, with animation, with everything that’s happening in our industries. So that’s evolving as well so we had to evolve from that, so the B-Series are now more violent, more aggressive, more realistic. When we have El Chapo, and it’s so realistic and it’s so unlike that Univision ever produce anything like that.
>> That’s interesting, so that is evolving?
>> Yes, that is evolving.
>> [LAUGH] I have one last question for you, we’ve been talking about this theory of zero-based thinking. And zero-based thinking is it has this thought that you’ve had a long, successful history in business. Knowing what you know now, is there anything that you wouldn’t get into that you did before, now that you know what you know now? Would you change anything, would you do anything differently, or not getting something that you did?
>> I think, overall, one thing that I wouldn’t do again is over-commit, because as you’re rising and growing and learning. At one point I obviously thought, I needed to be everywhere and meet with everyone. And you over-commit, and you get exhausted, and you end up not doing a good job. So that’s one thing, that if I could go back in time, I would just take my time and pace myself.
>> Great advice, take your time and pace yourself, well, I think we’ll end it on that note [LAUGH], thanks Margarita, it was great having you.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks everybody, we hope you enjoyed our show today, and got some really juicy insights. If you’re interested in learning more about Margarita, leadership, and Hispanic marketing, visit the Show Runner Marketing Podcast dot com. To learn more leave a question on our podcast page, or check out our video highlights from the show. The Show Runner Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Advanced Marketing Strategies. At AMS we pride ourselves on staying on top of the latest trends, innovation, and marketing concepts. To help businesses of all sizes thrive, you can find all Show Runner Marketing Podcast episodes and more creative tips. On Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Advanced Marketing Strategies, please feel free to reach out. If you have any questions, leave a comment, send us message or drop us an email. And, as always, keep running the show.
>> That’s our show for today, our latest interview and show notes have been added to our Show Runner Hall of Fame. At the showrunner marketing podcast.com. Don’t miss an episode by subscribing now to the Show Runner Marketing Podcast on iTunes, Stitcher or Google Play. And to network, motivate, and gain some more wisdom from the top. Follow Advanced Marketing Strategies on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Instagram and LinkedIn. Keep learning and growing, and thanks for listening [MUSIC]